Folkestone harbour arm place shaping consultation, make your views known

On the 18 July 2023, the local press ran the story about the New Folkestone harbour arm designs. This article has caused a storm of comments across social media, but the article itself fails to explain, why this cannot be stopped, or what people can change.

Cast your minds back to Wednesday 31 July 2013, when the Council held a extraordinary meeting to decide on planning permission for the Folkestone Harbour & Seafront, under application number Y12/0897/SH.  

All 38 Cllrs present voted for the application 

On the 30 Jan 2015, the planning application decision was granted, along with the conditions.

This outline planning permission covered the height and mass of the buildings at the Harbour and along Marine Parade.

On the 04 Sept 2017, Savills for and on behalf of Sir Roger, submits new plans for Folkestone Harbour & Seafront under a s73 application, Y17/1099/SH. The application  was linked to the Planning Permission Y12/0897/SH granted in Jan 2015.

The s73 application, Y17/1099/SH took two bites of the cherry to be successful. It is the s73 application which needs explanation, as it so often confuses members of the public.

Sir Roger’s Section 73 application, Y17/1099/FH, was an application for a fresh and independent planning permission (aka Permission B) without complying with one or more conditions from his first planning permission (Permission A, Y12/0897/SH). Before section 73’s was introduced, if anyone – individual or developer –  got planning permission and they did not like one of the conditions, they had only one single option: appeal. That brought further costs and delays and brought the real risk the individual, or developer, could lose everything.

The introduction of Section 73 avoided that risk. In a s73 the only thing up for grabs are the conditions. Should the permission be subject to different conditions? No conditions at all? Or the same conditions – if it’s that 3rd option, the section 73 application fails. The conditions in the s73 application were different so planning permission was granted.

As the s73 application was successful, that meant there was no necessity to “amend” Permission A (Y12/0897). As such he ended up with two separate, independent permissions: Permission A (Y12/0897/SH) and Permission B (Y17/1099/SH). And because he had two permissions, Sir Roger could decide which of them he wanted to implement. 

The focus is on conditions, when deciding a section 73 application, the Council’s planning committee still had to consider material planning considerations and policies as at the date of Permission B. The Council was not stuck with the world as it was when Permission A (Y12/0897/SH) was granted on 31 July 2013.

Changing the design wouldn’t involve re-writing the description of development (i.e. it’d still involve the “construction of one development” with the height and massing as per Permission A). All Sir Roger was doing then was proposing a fundamentally different design; which under s73 is allowed for.

So in a nutshell

Does a s.73 consent amend / vary / modify the original permission?

No

If you succeed, you end up with 2 permissions. Not a single modified permission. A permission under section 73 takes effect as an independent permission to carry out the same development as previously permitted, but subject to the new or amended conditions. 

Are s.73 applications limited to “minor material amendments”?

No.

Sir Roger’s Folkestone Harbour & Seafront development design wasn’t a minor amendment. It was a completely different design. But that didn’t take it outside the scope of section 73.

There is nothing in s.73 which limits an application to vary or remove a condition to “minor amendments” or to amendments which do not involve a “substantial” or “fundamental” variation to the original scheme.

Is s.73 excluded for applications which propose a “fundamental or substantial” variation to the original permission?

No.

Again, the key question is whether the new scheme proposed under section 73 is consistent with the operative part of the original permission. If the new scheme fits within the original description of development, that’s what counts. Even if the new scheme is fundamentally different to the old scheme.

Can a s.73 application alter/be inconsistent with the description of the development contained in the operative part of the existing planning permission?

No.

As the Court of Appeal have made clear:

[s.73’s] purpose is to give the developer “relief” against one or more conditions. On receipt of such an application section 73(2) says that the planning authority must “consider only the question of conditions”. It must not, therefore, consider the description of the development to which the conditions are attached. The natural inference from that imperative is that the planning authority cannot use section 73 to change the description of the development.”

With that little bit of education then, the only thing residents can do at the Folkestone Harbour & Seafront Consultation taking place at the Customs House on Friday 21 July 12pm – 6pm and Saturday 22 July 11am – 5pm, is comment on the design. So what you can comment on is for example, the access, the layout, the scale and appearance, sustainability & biodiversity, public open spaces, the landscaping and play space. 

For more detail on this Oldham Council have produced an excellent document setting out what should be considered throughout the design process; which you can read prior to the consultation, digest and add to any comments you may wish to make, on the paper survey/questionnaire on the day, or online  at (consultation@folkestoneseafront.com)

Now do remember the council will need to undertake its own consultation before making a decision on the application.

A planning application by Sir Roger’s company is due to be submitted to Folkestone & Hythe District Council in Autumn 2023. This application is about the design. It does not mean the development can be stopped. All that any public comment at the consultation can do is, affect/alter the design; which is what most of the hoo-ha on social media has been about.

So if you don’t want it to look like “piles of poo”, “termite mounds,” or a “wasp nest”, then give it some thought by reading the Oldham good design code. Then pop along to the consultation and make your comments. You never know, they just might be listened to and taken on board.

The Shepway Vox Team

The Velvet Voices of Voxatiousness

About shepwayvox (2277 Articles)
Our sole motive is to inform the residents of Shepway - and beyond -as to that which is done in their name. email: shepwayvox@riseup.net

23 Comments on Folkestone harbour arm place shaping consultation, make your views known

  1. It doesn’t matter what we say or do because in the end De Hann is only in it to make money .
    He won’t have to live in this pile of dogs poo or even look at it .
    Those of you who thought he had flown in to make Folkestone a wonderful place to be well now you can see what he was up to all along .
    The next thing will be the fences erected to keep us locals well away from OUR BEACH .

    • @Kevin

      Problem is it’s not OUR BEACH. That stretch of beach is private. It belongs to RDH’s company. That’s why there are signs (or there were) at each end of the boardwalk stating it’s private property and public access can be removed at any time.

      • And there you have it Emily . The private little commune that De Hann and all his chums were after right from day one .

      • Viator // July 21, 2023 at 09:37 //

        @Kevin

        More evidence that this is not on behalf of the council tax payer, it’s all a private venture to take the money and run?

      • Viator // July 21, 2023 at 10:32 //

        @Kevin

        The idea of this scheme very much appears to be based on the classic 70’s movie, Soylent Green, where a wealthy group of people live in high rise apartment buildings, protected from ordinary people by security guards; the blocks of flats look distinctly as though they have been designed directly from the Movie set!

      • @Emily

        I don’t see how they’re going to sell them. The prices are ridiculous. Surely they’ll go bust before reaching this end of the beach?

      • Viator // July 22, 2023 at 08:53 //

        @Phil

        Company planned crash and burn policy of the 80’s appears unusually common where FHDC are concerned, unfortunately, once people cast a vote at the polls, they abandon control to the whim of others.
        Where there appear to be power games within FHDC, which it seems are generally accepted, unrest arises, demand for rapid constructive change and a polarised society within the Folkestone and surrounding area increase.
        It follows that violent crime and drug abuse tend also to rise, much of which has ceased to be reported by the public, for obvious reasons.

    • @Kevin

      No one was ever going to “fly in and make Folkestone a wonderful place”, it was always going to be a businessman of some sort. Don’t forget, the Council have been prostituting themselves all over the place to attract foreign investors, who would have far less interest in Folkestone than Mr De Haan.

    • Rosemary // July 22, 2023 at 19:47 // Reply

      @Kevin

      How can you be serious about that design ? It will look awful and cast shadows all over the harbour while making it into a wind tunnel . Has anyone seen how far the waves break when the storms come in ? Ridiculous and unwanted pile of rubbish.

  2. This is so depressing the buildings look vile.

  3. So, we must probably expect financial massaging of council revenue once the buildings are established, going the same way as other councils in the UK who adopted copycat schemes, only to find they had created a tourist income disaster.
    Ah well, that’s life.
    Will they be calling it ‘Nelson Mandela House’ with Del and Rodney also living there?

  4. Gwendoline // July 21, 2023 at 13:37 // Reply

    These flats are hideous, we done not want million pound properties, we need social housing for the people of Folkestone. Not properties for rich people who will not live in them,

  5. The disgust at this project is general at all levels in the entire region, controversial, it is, unwanted, unanimous.
    It’s being described as a pair of structures that are designed literally to stick two fingers up at the rest of us, as a public statement.

    That certainly appears to be the case.

  6. I don’t like saying ‘I told you so’ but I did right at the start. Folkestone’s main benefactor always had his eye the end game!

  7. This is the most hideous project ever since please don’t let it go through it will make our beautiful sea front look a complete disaster and do nothing for folkestone at all only a laughing stock

  8. Did anyone else go to the exhibition today? It was bedlam. People were queueing to voice their objection. I watched people shouting in anger to the architects. Nobody really cared until they saw the actual mock-ups.

    • People are speaking from the heart, the council shrinking in significance.
      The UK Constitution is built on three legs: Monarchy, Government and The People.
      It is time for council to act with maturity on behalf of Folkestone people. It is time, once again, to drop hidden agendas, convenient eating meetings, and get back on track.

  9. Jennifer // July 25, 2023 at 16:55 // Reply

    Absolutely hideous even worse than TheBurstin!

    • The only person who like it is SIR RODGER He doesn’t care about the people of folkestone only about himself, he was so good for the town when he owned Sarge he was a fantastic boss but it’s all gone wrong and got to big for his boots.

      • Maybe he should take his money and leave the whiners and the council to fund the regeneration of Folkestone.

  10. Ahhhh, and everybody, it seems, got blind (over the long years) for the Grand Burstin Hotel ? 🙂 How funny the ‘public awareness’ storms come up, and lay down after years.
    https://c8.alamy.com/compfr/e7emdc/grand-burstin-hotel-folkestone-harbour-kent-e7emdc.jpg
    Budgetary reminder: rich people (in private property, costing nothing at all to the council) bring in the nessessary local tax revenue rise, needed to be ABLE to provide new community housing.
    Who knows a better way to attract “high income – high local tax paying” citizens, without a hallmark project ? Folkestone was completely rotting down during the 1970-1990-ies due to the end of the traditional ‘Victorian’ long-term touristical stays, mainly older people from London. That WAS the source of income, and it’s gone.
    I’m not even English, I’m Belgian, but had part of my youth in Folkestone (every spring) and every then and now after. That is, since 1961 ! I’ve got more memory about the town, then most younger people wandering around there now. I’ve seen the activities on the Leas, including the zig zag walk gardens, crumbling down from bright, to miseable. I’ve seen the water lifts deteriorating and going out of service. I’ve seen the disapearance of the countless (+ 100 ??) guest houses there once were. (The one we frequented, ‘Claremont’, now is an elderly home with the same name.) I’ve seen the degrading of The Old High Street, with 50% of the shops closed down behind plywood shields… and I’ve seen similar effects in the streets all over. Some spots looked like ghost town, in the era past 2000. All that and more. And unempoyed, poverty… The result of factual disapearing residential tourism. Rich people are not going to move in, into a place that visually ‘welcomes’ them with high poverty level. They will move in when “contemporary London style” accomodation is available. If it’s not posh, they will not come, neither their tax paying money. As simple as that.
    >>> “Without a big local tax money raising move (like new luxury class residents), the problems of deterioration will continue.”
    English people can be very stubborn in saying no to literally everything, without finding the ability to present an alternative BIG source of income. (Repeat : the old ages kind of ‘residential’ tourism will NEVER come back.)
    It’s pathetic….

    • Exclusive up market residential developments in order to ensure a purse for social housing has for many years proven at best a fantasy: it has not materialised.

      The story is as tarnished as Miss Haversham’s wedding dress, in Dickens ‘Great Expectations’.

      Propagandists build castles in the sky, fantasists live in them.

      Folkestone once had a successful business model, which it allowed to be destroyed in pursuit of vanity, to look ‘nice’, with pretty, expensive properties,
      turning away from the people, and responsibility to the majority.

      Far from declining in the death throes of a post-Victorian era, Folkestone people, and small businesses, adapted considerably well, against severe competition, attracting a customer core each week end to a fun fair and vibrant market with a projected financial turn over which generated probably well in excess of revenue returns under any of the present disingenuous ‘official’ schemes.

      Throwing good money to support bad never works, but the world is never short of fools who will do so, when that money is gathered from other people’s hard work, while attempting to feed and clothe their children, which may be readily disposed of by individuals who pleasantly enjoy the benefits of an expense account, devoid from such concerns, more focused on their widening girths and grins.

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